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Monday, May 19, 2008
Posted by: Fred Thompson at 9:50 AM

Nowadays everyone feels entitled to their Andy Warhol-esque “15 minutes of fame.” Fairly normal people will bust a gut to get a few seconds on television. Physical harm is likely for anyone standing between a camera and blow-hard politicians desirous of hawking legislation they and everyone else know will never be enacted. The rich and vacuous, seeking to make a difference, weigh in against the world’s problems to great fanfare amidst black ties and eco-talk press conferences.

And all of them seem to be making lots and lots of money.

Now, consider the plight of the poor jurist in all this, especially appellate judges. Often a lot smarter and making a fraction of the money than the lawyers who appear before them, they labor in obscurity with only their clerks and a handful of others in the legal community appreciating their brilliance and understanding how truly important they are.

Picture them as they retire to their chambers to study some obscure point of law that nobody cares about but the litigious ingrates in the case before them. His Honor has little opportunity for grand gestures or heroic initiatives.

The judge’s job is simply to apply to the circumstances of the cases that are brought to their court the laws that have been written by lesser mortals. The job requires restraint, modesty, and reverence for the established rules of society. The judge is obliged to uphold the status quo until the people decide to change it. Where is the glory in that, for Pete’s sake?

Then, like manna from Heaven, “The Case” comes before his court – the case that can change his ignominious plight. With a few of his like-minded colleagues, he can, in effect, reshape the legal landscape, become a leader of a great cause, get the publicity equivalent to the cover of Rolling Stone, and be hailed be the mainstream press. It dawns on him that he and his buddies on the court can do things that those politicians could never achieve – things that the unenlightened, unwashed herd, otherwise known as “the people” would probably never choose to do.

Now that’s real power! That’s delivering “change we deserve.” All he and a few of his colleagues have to do is discover in their constitution a right previously unknown that has been hiding there in plain sight for about 150 years.

Ladies and gentleman, I give you the California supreme court majority and their recent opinion in the same-sex marriage complaints filed by multiple San Francisco gay couples.

On a more serious note, this decision follows “judicial lawmaking” on the subject by courts in Massachusetts, New Jersey, Vermont, and Iowa (though many other state courts have heeded their limitations), and causes supporters of the rule of law and the will of the people to rally in response. Those in California say that they will fight for a constitutional amendment. This response highlights the invidious effects of this kind of judicial activism, which reverses the way things are supposed to work in our legal system. These courts, with the stroke of a pen, are now, in effect, amending their constitutions and placing the burden of changing it back (usually a very difficult task), on the people.

Nationally, as a result of this case, there will undoubtedly be renewed calls for a federal constitutional amendment outlawing same-sex marriage. Conservatives should resist the temptation to support such a remedy. States must solve this problem for themselves. They cannot and should not be saved from themselves or absolved of the responsibility that they have, a responsibility protected against federal intrusion by the Tenth Amendment.

In the first place, playing the game of judicial activists, and leaping to the federal-constitutional-amendment remedy every time judges misread the constitution and change the law, is a fool’s errand. Passing two-thirds of both houses of Congress and three-quarters of the state legislatures has proven to be an impossible hurdle for the marriage amendment and many other proposed constitutional amendments, even when Republicans controlled Congress.

More fundamentally, the issue presented is not whether conservatives will get their way on the issue of same-sex marriage. The issue is, in our system of government, determining the appropriate place for this issue to be decided. For over 200 years marriage and related issues have been the province of state, not federal law. That is where it should remain. States, acting within their appropriate and constitutionally vested realm, should be free to have laws that even you and I disagree with as long as they do not violate established constitutional principles.

For years, legal critics clamored for federal tort reform, which for most of them meant the overriding of state law. After years of unsuccessful efforts by reformers, states finally started accepting their responsibility. State after state passed tort-reform legislation, and maintained their rights to fashion their reform measures as they saw fit with the happy byproduct of lower insurance rates and an influx of new businesses. Those states which do not act, or act unwisely, face a competitive disadvantage with other states …as they should. This is called – say it all together – federalism. It is an important part of our constitutional framework, based upon our founders’ abhorrence of too much centralized power.

So, more power to the people of California in their uphill battle for an amendment to their state constitution. But the real, long-term solution in the future for supporters of the rule of law is ensuring the selection and election of good judges, judges who know their role in a constitutional republic, in the first place, and holding them – and the politicians who appoint and confirm them – accountable.



View in ascending order View in descending order
Pasadena Phil writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 10:20 AM
Also coming your way
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-04-24-mexicocartels _N.htm

This is what is spilling over from our border into what may only temporarily be the border states. Wherever you are in America, if you don't help defend our borders in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas, YOUR state will soon be a border state and us big states will not be able to help you. TELL YOUR CONGRESSMAN!

And don't vote for the one-party system. Vote 3rd party. Pick one. For now, I like Bob Barr.
Pasadena Phil writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 10:28 AM
Why this is worrisome
We are spending billions in Mexico helping their government fight off the drug cartels. Yes, this is because there IS a drug war being fought. But we are losing and these cartels already control our prisons and street gangs. There are HERE and they are HEADING YOUR WAY.

"But what's true is that there is enormous desertion in the Mexican army and police force,"

We are LOSING. Wake up America!
DHulme writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 10:38 AM
I like you, Fred........
but this is why you were one of the three socially liberal Republican attorneys turned away by the Republican electorate. I fully believed you were a man of integrity until you recanted your originally stated positions on Chris Wallace's program at the beginning of your campaign. We're not ignoring attempts to revise the ALIMPC based on the fraudulent and fallacious research of Alfred Kinsey and Evelyn Hooker again. Knowingly promoting borderline caretaker environments for children, regardless of the gender of the caretaker environment and its socioeconomic status, is no less than unethical if not antisocial behavior by neurotic legal and medical professionals. Amend the state's constitution, impeach the judges, and if necessary, revolt against the government.
IGoCommando writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 10:42 AM
MDoooooggggg
"- the role of judges is to protect the minority against an over reaching majority..."

Or in this case; what the courts failed to do, was protect the majority from an over-reaching minority.

Cuts both ways MDooooooggggg.

Pasadena Phil writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 10:49 AM
Another area of concern
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/may/19/court-blocked-f rom-case-too-many-investments/

You are not likely going to read about this anywhere but think about what this means. Not only are our elected officials corrupted by big special money, but because everyone is invested in those who are corrupting, it creates enormous conflicts of interest. I don't know what to say about the entire Supreme Court having to recuse itself from cases that get that far but it is a serious issue worth discussing. This is not a problem of personal corruption but of conflicts of interest percolating through the system innocently to undermine an important process.
Silver Lion writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 10:53 AM
You may have missed the point Fred
I disagree with the following:

"But the real, long-term solution in the future for supporters of the rule of law is ensuring the selection and election of good judges, judges who know their role in a constitutional republic, in the first place, and holding them – and the politicians who appoint and confirm them – accountable."

As you well know, judges are appointed by politicians who share their values or personal agendas. Hold a politician accountable? Many of these folks, especially in the Senate, appear to believe they have DO NOT have to answer to the people or anyone for that matter. Case in point: Feinstein's underhanded attempt to push illegal invader amnesty attached to the war funding bill. Or the earmarks for forest fish in Oregon in the farming bill! No, politicians are generally self-serving as to whom they respond to!

I think the solution is for Executive branches to grow some spine and NOT enforce these types of verdicts from the bench. That is what is meant by "checks and balances". California's ruling applies to the plaintiffs case only! SINCE WHEN DOES AN INTERPRETATION OR RULING IN ONE COURT CASE BECOME THE LAW OF THE LAND? Did the legislature just give their LAW-making powers to the judicial branch?

I believe an automatic stay should be effected as soon as possible within the next 30 days before any of these goomers get hitched pending an appeal or amendment in the fall. Unlike Massachusetts, California will NOT have the same requirements. People will be able to marry in California from other states, return to their OWN state, and be legally married, thereby demanding recognition from the HOME STATE,
some of which HAVE constitutional amendments prohibiting this!

For that 15 minutes of fame, those judges have really done a major, major, disservice to the majority of Californians and the entire nation in general.

billh writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 10:56 AM
Oh Fred, we need you!
Calling Fred a liberal is like calling the sun a black hole.

I agree that the courts are not there to undercut the will of the people. We have a democratic republic. When millions of votes are undercut by a handful of people, show me where demoracy exists?

I agree, these judges want nothing more than fame.

If Fred would get back in the race, I bet 90% of all republicans would back him in November.

Fred...think third party, run independant in November!!!
Shells writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 11:07 AM
MDogggg
"Gay marriage is SO important...
because then all those hypocritical Republicans could ditch those annoying wives and hook up with their REAL desires..."

-Is that the very best you could come up with? Don't quit your day job, whatever that may be, for being a satirist.

"Thompson should keep his day job - the role of judges is to protect the minority against an over reaching majority..."

-The role of a judge, I thought, was to follow the law, the state's constitution, and enact accordingly.

I do realize that almost half of the judges were calling themselves "republican." I guess there is a difference to what that apparently means if you reside in California.

My problem is not what they ruled for, but how it was done. The people had voted against it. These judges made a facist ruling despite what the people of California wanted.

This could happen again and pertain to any whim and any cause, and despite what the majority people of the state want, the judges will go their own way and do as they like.

This is worrisome.

Charlio writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 11:10 AM
Gay Marriage
Marriage is a basic civil right that should be attainable by all Americans if they choose. For those who are uncomfortable with this check out our short produced to educate & defuse the controversy. It has a way of opening closed minds & provides some sanity on the issue: http://www.OUTTAKEonline.com
My Pet Goat writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 11:12 AM
Takin' a nap?
I guess Fred missed this part of the news: 6 of the 7 judges are proud Republicans.

Next?
moses writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 11:17 AM
ignore the ruling
The legislative and executive of the states just have to ignore the ruling.

Tell the courts that they can rant and rave all they want but the power to legislate resides with the Congress and the power to execute the laws resides with the Executive.

The Judicial branch is working itself into a showdown that it cannot win.

All the legislative and executive have to say is, "That's your decision, now enforce it!".
My Pet Goat writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 11:22 AM
And one more thought....
The anti's on the right have yet to produce one specific, definable, quantifiable method in which my marriage, my children, my grandchildren are threatened if the two lesbians down the street have a marriage license.

So far, all the right-wing has produced is theory and fear. None of which come to my doorstep.

I say let 'em get married and enjoy the extra tax revenue.
Marlson writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 11:49 AM
Okay, so by your logic Goat...
...owning a slave in Alabama has no direct effect on a family living is say, Indiana. So why bother to fight against it? You can still live your life in Indiana unchanged or un"threatened" as you say. It's not a matter of close-mindedness or any other over simplified insult to the other sides inherent intelligence. It's a moral one, among other practical reasons and the arguments have been made justly. To relegate the opposing viewpoint to a bunch of toothless "haters", well, would you rather be part of the actual discussion? Perhaps you enjoy standing outside the ramparts slinging mud bombs because it makes you feel like king on the playground. ANYWAY....another home run Fred, keep up the good work, how i eagerly wait to cast my vote your way.
Salt writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 11:56 AM
why marriage is in peril
1) When did we start changing definitions of words because a group of activists demand so? For thousands of years, all societies defined marriage as a contract between a man and one or more women.

2) We must grant the same rights to polygymists, NAMBLA and those who want to marry siblings, parents, monkeys, dogs & cats.

3) If that is what we the people want to do, fine. Let's vote on it, not leave it to Judge Judy.

Love to all, yes, even gays.
Sandy writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 11:57 AM
You should be our next President!
It's great to hear from you again Senator Thompson! As usual, you are so correct on the issue. These judges are appointed by politicians, and that is why it is of ultimate importance that our elected officials believe in the rule of law. It doesn't matter if they are Democrats or Republicans, they cannot legislate from the bench!
Our country is in such deep trouble with the candidates that are being forced on us, particularly McCain. The Republican party is truly in a downward spin. Every time McCain opens his mouth, he loses more possible support. He cannot become the nominee.
Senator Thompson, you can have that groundswell back in support of you as the President of the United States, now more than ever. The Democrats have 2 candidates that are so very left liberal, many moderate liberals would even vote for you. You have never said that you would not accept the nomination for the Presidency if that happens. Please keep your name out there, and take advantage of every media avenue you can. You are actually getting more attention now than when you were a candidate. I am loving every minute of it.
BobH_TX writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 11:58 AM
Gay Marriage
Why is this even subject in American politics! There are far too many important issues that grip this nations foundation and threaten to tear it apart. If homosexuals want to get married, let them! There not going to bring down the house with them. If you don't like it, then make sure the loving, compassionate (Jesus' words)"Christian" church you attend every Sunday so "you" can get to heaven, bars them from doing so. This is NOT, nor should it be, a part of American Politics. Every single person living in this great country, has the "RIGHT" to "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". Whether you're straight or gay. Find a real issue to stew about. Like doing away with the IRS and the stupid income tax.
My Pet Goat writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 12:16 PM
Marlson....
....you still didn't answer the question.

How does it affect MY marriage? Just asking for ONE answer.

Of couse, the point is, you can't give one.
Hitchhiker writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 12:22 PM
Good Post Fred
It is and should remain a state issue. Impeach the judges if possible, recall if them if possible, amend the state constitution if possible but don't make it a federal issue. It is not. Same goes for the eco nazi issues. It cuts both ways guys. Let the wackos have Kalifornia and Taxachusetts. We can have the rest of the country the way we like it and the Feds can go play golf until their votes are needed on a war resolution or a bona fide federal spending resolution.

DHulme writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 12:29 PM
My Pet Goat............
chooses to ignore all empirical data regarding borderline caretaker environments for children. Expect nothing less from neurotic individuals.
Salt writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 12:34 PM
I answered your question, goat boy
If you choose to ignore the answer, you will remain ignorant.

Love to all.
Marlson writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 12:35 PM
right...
Doesn't effect you personally therefore its a non-issue? Thank you for showing us all the light and granting this wisdom. If you think the traditional family is a non-issue or does not have a say on politics, well...its safe to say you see things very different from probably, most. Most certainly, you see things from different colored glasses then say, the founding fathers, conservatives looking to preserve this social foundation and the liberals looking to uproot it. Not to merely accept all human behavior as legitimate or righteous, but to stand up for what's right for the sake of all mankind, that is compassion at its up most. I have no problem with you having whatever kind of sex you want with whomever you want behind closed doors. As a gay person I have no problem being your friend, brother or coworker, just don't ask the state to legitimize it or engage in this severe relativism. Perhaps it's an effort to relieve the guilt? I don't claim to know for sure. Fact is, gay marriage stands in the face of Life itself, specifically and by definition. So I agree with you to uphold the right to pursue these inherent rights and do the right thing to protect traditional marriage.

...By the way, I personally don't belong to any organized religion and do not take orders from any spiritual leader, so all of the people commenting trying to make it strictly a Christian issue, your not speaking to the rest of us.
Marlson writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 12:37 PM
Goat...
because that is your issue and yours alone. Fortunately I'm not responsible for how you merely "feel". Work it out my friend.
KH17 writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 1:00 PM
BobH_TX, that sounds good but....
Churchs who rent out for weddings are already being sued by gays who have been turned away from church becuase it is against their beliefs. The arguement is shaped in a way that it is similar to a business turning away someone becuase of the color of their skin. This is a can of worms that will not go away even if we through up our arms and let it slid. It will not end until we allow everyone to feel accepted and expected in whatever BEHAVIOR they decide to participate in this country, yes including "freedom" to do whatever they want, wherever they, just like two year olds. Sounds like a great future.
Marlson writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 1:48 PM
bob...
don't forget the boy scouts.
whatilearnedthisweek writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 2:04 PM
We Need Help...
Marison...

The State (AG) & Republicans/Conservatives have failed to demonstrate within the context of the Constitution that maintaining the current state of Marriage is a Compelling Interest of the State. All of rhetoric about Activist Judges and the world coming to an end is a futile exercise that only inspires Americans to become further enraged. I would personally welcome the argument to protect Traditional Marriage, a sound argument that survives Strict Scrutiny, yet, comports with the valid presumption of Privacy.

Unfortunately, we get whining about Massachusetts, the Texas Sodomy Case (which was decided properly), Liberals who extend the boundaries of Privacy to a society's breaking point and Conservatives who can't justify restraint. We need help.



What I Learned This Week
PokerGuy writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 2:08 PM
"Rights"
There are fundamental rights intended to be enjoyed by ALL citizens of the United States of America: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The Constitution codifies these rights, and no state can eliminate them - nor should any court be "interpreting" them beyond the bounds of existing law. This is why comparing the resistance to any fictitious right sought by a fringe minority to opposing the abolition of slavery is both invalid and ridiculous.

What federalists such as Fred, and I for that matter, believe is that the incremental erosion of fundamental rights and redefinition of societal structure to satisfy some aberrant squeaky wheel - and then another, and another... - is in the long run destructive to the states and the country unless and until the majority of voters, not jurists, indicate their will for the change. And making every issue a federal issue is directly opposed to the tenets on which this great republic was founded.

Radicals of various ilk have long since adopted an incremental corrosive strategy toward getting their way. None of us benefit with the exception of that particular small minority whose actions remind of obnoxious squalling infants wanting attention RIGHT NOW to the exclusion of all else. To say that the changes these groups advocate are benign is to say that termites are benign because each individual pest is only taking tiny, hardly noticeable bits from the foundation of your home - so why worry?

/end-mixed-metaphors
KillerKonservative writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 2:08 PM
I would have voted for you....
Had you not dropped out before the Florida Primary!
Better luck next time, Senator Thompson. Couldn't agree more with you view of Federalism. Let's hope California still has enough sane residents to pass the amendment.
Jackpine Savage writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 2:10 PM
Fred is right
This is an issue best left up to the states.

Personally I find the idea of gay marriage a slippery slope. Once we allow gays to marry, how long before some freak petitions the court to mary his cow, or his dog?
Before you laugh, recently a woman in Israel (where gays can marry) was married to a Dolphin!

But, although I find it detestable doesn't mean we need a federal law. If the citizens of a state want gays to marry, let them change their state's constitution. In the case of california, the people voted down same sex marriage, but an activist judge went against the will of the people.

This is wrong, and should be overturned by the supreme court.

Good to have ya back Fred, we appreciate your wit and common sense.
Bikerknight writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 2:13 PM
Two Constititutional Monkey Wrenches
1. "Full Faith and Credit" clause; states are required to recognize the validity of the public acts of other states, to whit: marriage.
2. "Interstate Commerce" clause; gives the federal government the right to regulate interstate commerce (to preclude states from imposing their own tariffs).

Now a Starbucks executive in SF, CA "marries" the love of his life in CA. Being as they live in an enlightened state, they adopt two or three children.

A couple of years later, he is transferred to some "benighted" (not homo approved) place like my state of Texas. He and the "wife" live htere for two or three years and then divorce for their own reasons. This results in a major custody battle for children and sex toys.

Even if Texas had passed a state constitutional amendment stating that same sex relationships would receive no state recognition, how does Texas not participate in the dissolution (and tacit recognition) of the "marriage" that dissolves in its state?
Another question:
On the way to the divorce, the "couple" become upset during arational discussion of their future. Words come to (I will not say "blows") fisticuffs and the police are called. Given the NAZI nature of our state authorities with regard to alternative lifestyles, during what century will the loving parents be allowed to again see "their" children?
Pasadena Phil writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 2:20 PM
More conflicts of interest
Are you really sure you are getting the news? Or are you just an unwitting tool in "the game"?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/0 5/18/AR2008051802313_pf.html

Everywhere you look, it's the same corporate interests pulling the strings. Step back and think hard about the picture being painted for us this year. Are you really sure you have your facts straight?
DJ writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 3:04 PM
gay marriage
I, personally, have nothing against the idea of civil unions. If the issue was just to accept and recognize the union, I'd be fine. But it sounds more like, "We want the government to make a church accept homosexuality and marry us within that church". With this I have a problem.
The state cannot come to a church, any church and demand that it change it's doctrine. That is a true breach of the "separation of church and state".
If the desire is to be "married" in a church - break away, create an off-shoot. It's been done lots of times in history.
SNAFU writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 3:09 PM
"Full Faith and Credit" not unlimited
If the "Full Faith and Credit" clause applied without limit, much of the debate concerning the Second Amendment's protection of the right to keep and bear arms would be moot. Every state would be required to recognize a concealed weapon permit issued by any other state. (Just as they do with a driving license.)

But that's not the case, though, is it?

While I firmly believe the issue of defining marriage belongs at the state rather than federal level, I also believe this is a situation where the "Full Faith and Credit" clause will not apply.
Jvette writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 3:11 PM
Jvette
How does gay marriage affect my own? A red herring thrown in that doesn't advance the debate at all. Why? Because we are a society, what happens within society affects us all whether directly or indirectly.

Since the advent of no-fault divorce, marriage has been increasingly disparaged. There are now so-called starter marriages, with most people going into their first marriage expecting to divorce. I guess if there are no children, no harm, no foul. But, that is usually not the case. And though many would like to think otherwise, children are nearly always harmed by divorce.

So,the first casualty was marriage. Next, the family. Children are best served by their natural parents married and living life as a family. There are exceptions, but the studies are irrefutable. The harm of divorce follows them to adulthood.

So the third casualty is children. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the harm done to children over the past thirty five or so years.

Fourth, society suffers from emotionally stunted adults, unable to commit or accept personal responsibility. The cycle continues and each successive generation has more and more problems.

So, you may not be directly affected, but we all suffer from the affects.
B writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 3:33 PM
Can of worms
Some clergy are worried about what would happen if they deny a homosexual couple the right to marry in their church when homosexual marriage is contrary to their religion.

Would denial be construed as a hate crime or descrimination? Would clergy be compelled to marry homosexuals or face fines or jail? If so, prosecution on these grounds would be a violation of our Federal Constitution freedom of religion.

But we would have to rely on judges to make this interpretation. Our courts have completely undermined my faith in their ability to correctly interpret what is apparent to anyone with common sense.
Jvette writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 3:56 PM
the bigger question
is why is marriage considered a right? It was never intended to be. The purpose of marriage was to protect women and children from being left without a man to provide for them. Restrictions on marriage have existed since the institution itself. Others have been added by different societies.

One cannot marry a first cousin. One cannot marry a sibling or parent(ewww). One cannot marry more than one person at a time. Some restrictions have been removed, i.e. the one prohibiting interracial marriage. But, it has always been society's right to define and restrict marriage.

Society has rights too. For example, it is within society's rights to deny gun ownership to someone who has been convicted of a felony. Society has restricted businesses by limiting location, disallowing discriminations, making rules to ensure safe work places, lower work weeks, better beginning pay. This is done for the betterment of society as a whole. Society restricts voting to one vote per person of a minimum age registered in a timely fashion. Driving is a privilege, not a right and society gets to decide who can have a license and at what age.

We are society. It is our representatives duly elected who pass the laws. If our representatives are not doing as we wish, there is the option of initiatives which work outside the elected legislature. That is what happened in California. Yet the unelected and unaccountable court has decided that the legal vote of the majority of Californians was wrong. They found a "right" in the constitution that does not exist.

When courts do this, we, society, lose. Just another way we are all affected by this decision. Maybe not directly on this one, but give it time, something that does directly affect you will come along.
B writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 4:51 PM
Incompetence
Amen Jvette. Since a judge can only be removed when a leglislative body decides him/her incompetent, I would support a law or amendment that would define an act of judicial incompetence that the people could use to hold a judge accountable. This could include:

1. Invoking a foreign law to interpret our constitution

2. Clear manipulation of our constitution to fit a case that any common man or woman can see isn't addressed in the text

If a court is found to rule incompetently according to the standard, we should be able remove the offending and dangerous judges in addition to the ability to overturn the incompetent ruling of even a supreme court.

I think our judges have forced us to come up with a clear standard that we can use to kick them out and reverse the damage caused.
maggie  writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 5:37 PM
ATTA BOY, FRED!
Those judges are riding high now but if they are over turned so is their appointment. But if they are not over turned then look out ,what's next? The people's voice should alwasys carry more weight than any court when it comes to social issues. I think marriage is between a man and a woman and the courts should stay out of it. This should be on the ballot in Nov. if the individual state has a reason to include it from the citizens.
My Pet Goat writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 5:41 PM
Marlson...
I have no "issue" with it at all. And please don't presume to call me your friend.
TNboy writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 5:55 PM
Liberal Fred helping it happen.
Fred has all the wrong answers.

I've told you guys before that these states rights issues are going to get you no where but under liberal tyranny.

People have tried them over the years and they have failed the people. They don't work.

All there needs to be is a activist supreme court ruling and they are null and void. Or if liberals manage to be the ones to make national ledgistration then they are gone.

Liberals in our national government passing something like ENDA will effect you in TN, or MS, or AL, or AR, or SC or anywhere just the same as it would in CA.

If you states rights says something different then your states rights will be declared unconstitutional.

Please listen before it is too late. This isn't the time to be talking about states rights.

Otherwise you will wake up one day to this whole nation becoming like San Fransico by law regardless of what your state laws once said.

Remember the state law in TX?
KYJurisDoctor writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 8:43 PM
Same sex marriages.
"But the real, long-term solution in the future for supporters of the rule of law is ensuring the selection and election of good judges, judges who know their role in a constitutional republic, in the first place, and holding them – and the politicians who appoint and confirm them – accountable."

That says it ALL, Fred! That says it ALL!!

OsiSpeaks.com
Rowly writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 8:59 PM
Same Sex Marriage?
If my parents,who passed away several years ago,could come back and see what we have become,they would not believe it.Sometimes,I don't.

We have lost any dignity we ever had.Political correctness has caused us to accept even the basest behavior.The liberals are always busy.Chip,chip,chip.Chipping away the last shreds of decency we have left.

They keep pushing the envelope.They get this right,so they go for another more obnoxious.They are patient.They know they have to do it incrimentally,so we won't notice so much.

There should be no same sex marriage any time,any place,in my opinion.It makes a mockery of marriage and that is pleasing to some people.It is not to me.This is my opinion and it is not up for debate,so don't even try.
Ike writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 9:35 PM
Just because you're paranoid ....
The point of opposing the legalization of same-sex marriage is to thwart the attack on heterosexual marriage. At the risk of being labelled a believer in conspiracy theories, there is a concerted effort to destroy American social institutions among a relatively small - tiny perhaps - group of leftists. Unfortunately, they are largely from wealthy families, politically connected and able to both obtain jobs in academic settings to pay their way and give them a place from which to make their attacks and avoid arrest and prosecution for decades. Yes, a reference to Sen. Obama's buddies the SDS Weatherman refugees.

The solution to Republican failure at the ballot box is for the Republican rank and file to hold the office-holders accountable to voters. How? Change the party platform from essentially a script for cheer leaders and an aid for speech-writers into a series of statements of position or real issues. Require candidates who want the Republican label and support to pledge in writing to support the core of positions that could be said to define "Republican". If they won't so pledge, no party support or funding. And actually do this, every time, without any excuses. Unless something like this is done to recall officer-holders to their duty *and* to enforce their performance of that duty *and* to say to the rest of America and the party membership "This is what we believe to be right and we ARE doing this.", then the Republican Party will go the way of the Bull Moose, Whig and other defunct parties. And, numbers of us will move to start another party that will have the strength of its convictions, not be a copy of the Dumocrats. Or, perhaps, join the Libertarians and tame their wilder impulses, eh? Jokes aside; something must be done and I think this or something like it is what that "something" must be.
Ike writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 9:39 PM
Just because you're paranoid ....
The point of opposing the legalization of same-sex marriage is to thwart the attack on heterosexual marriage. At the risk of being labelled a believer in conspiracy theories, there is a concerted effort to destroy American social institutions among a relatively small - tiny perhaps - group of leftists. Unfortunately, they are largely from wealthy families, politically connected and able to both obtain jobs in academic settings to pay their way and give them a place from which to make their attacks and avoid arrest and prosecution for decades. Yes, a reference to Sen. Obama's buddies the SDS Weatherman refugees.

The solution to Republican failure at the ballot box is for the Republican rank and file to hold the office-holders accountable to voters. How? Change the party platform from essentially a script for cheer leaders and an aid for speech-writers into a series of statements of position or real issues. Require candidates who want the Republican label and support to pledge in writing to support the core of positions that could be said to define "Republican". If they won't so pledge, no party support or funding. And actually do this, every time, without any excuses. Unless something like this is done to recall officer-holders to their duty *and* to enforce their performance of that duty *and* to say to the rest of America and the party membership "This is what we believe to be right and we ARE doing this.", then the Republican Party will go the way of the Bull Moose, Whig and other defunct parties. And, numbers of us will move to start another party that will have the strength of its convictions, not be a copy of the Dumocrats. Or, perhaps, join the Libertarians and tame their wilder impulses, eh? Jokes aside; something must be done and I think this or something like it is what that "something" must be.
jpip writes: Monday, May, 19, 2008 11:19 PM
Hypothetical -- do you know the answer?
This is a bunch of if's, but a question I don't know the answer to -- do you?
McCain is opposed to judicial activism which conservatives would say occurred last week in California. To avoid this IF he were elected president, he says he will appoint "strict constructionists" who will judge on the constitution, not what they "feel" is "right." I think we can agree that neither homosexuality nor the definition of marriage is contained in the California constitution, and, rightly or wrongly, the justices, 4-3, "reached" to find a solution they thought was the proper remedy.
If a President McCain appointed someone like John Roberts, the Democrats would not confirm him/her.
So, this is the question: if, say, the very liberal Justice Stevens and/or Justice Ginsberg) leaves the court, and McCain cannot get his choice(s) confirmed, can he just say, OK, we'll go with what we have: 7 or 8 justices? Six justices constitute a quorum -- could McCain just let it "ride" knowing he has 4 realiable votes plus Justice Kennedy much of the time?
ChipsMaster writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 2:12 AM
This Was Fred's Correct Platform;
Fred's Building Strong Families

"Strong families are the bedrock of our nation and our culture. They are built around the sanctity of life and the institution of marriage, which is the union of a man and a woman. To counter coarseness in today’s culture that oftentimes victimizes our children and undermines the traditional values parents want to instill, we must not only protect but strengthen the institutions of family and marriage. I am committed to:

Using the Presidency to encourage policies that promote a culture of life, strengthen the institution of marriage and traditional families, and advance freedom of religion.
Returning authority to the levels of government closest to families and communities—the states—and then protecting states from further intrusion by the federal government, the judiciary, and other states.
Combating the spread of obscenity over TV and other media by making sure parents can better exercise their responsibilities."


This reflects my values and principles where I fully understand finding the correct solutions within the design of our founding father's republic must be observed.

It is not your fault we've become incapable for our own governance and I must sincerely thank you for showing many of us that common sense, reason and wisdom is not yet extinct.
Nellie writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 6:02 AM
my pet goat,
I feel as you do.

My understanding of the Bible is spiritual.

That means; loving relationships are bound in marriage under God. Love is not defined in material terms [or drawn in one defining visual picture]. LOVE is deeper than that.

It was not designed in those fixed and limited ways.

Sgt Relic writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 6:21 AM
Well said Fred
Although I do not agree with the decision in CA, I do agree that it is an issue to be decided by the state. The people of CA will now have to exercise their rights as citizens to correct the problem by enacting a constitutional amendment clear enough for even a CA supreme to understand.

Unfortunately for us all, someone is going to try to get this issue before the SCOTUS making it a federal issue. That court should properly refuse to hear the case but my money is on the "mini-congress" making a decision which is political rather than constitutional.

Fred, get back in the race as an independent and give me somebody that I can vote for instead of "4th Amendment" Bob Barr.
Lisa writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 7:35 AM
Well written

Very well written. The fight is in our own neighborhood. Everyone must find the courage to say you don't support the redefinition of marriage or see the State interest in their relationships beyond existing contract law while you are looking someone in the eye.

It is also good to remind them that, given someone's acceptance, they are still free to marry the opposite sex. Most gays, just as single folks, chose not to pursue it.
Michael writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 8:08 AM
10th Amendment
With all due respect Fred, (and I would have voted for you) you cannot fall back on the 10th Amendment when you have the kind of judicial activism going on today.

The courts are all interlaced. The California ruling will affect other courts in other states. Gays married in Ca. will move to other states and divorce.

When a court strays outside it's boundaries as they did, why must the State even acknowledge it? 1 man thwarted the will of the people. Tell me what is Constitutional or Democratic about that?

There must be some new laws enacted by Congress to quickly and decisvely override the will of these renigade courts. That's what Congress does, so it must be at the Federal level so we have a degree of commonality among the States.

I appreciate Fred honoring the 10th Amendment, but our Founding Fathers could not have envisioned the kind of courts and decisions we are seeing today.
Doc.BitterOwnerClinger writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 8:12 AM
My pet goat writes:
Takin' a nap?
I guess Fred missed this part of the news: 6 of the 7 judges are proud Republicans.

That would be like calling people like you or Jaun McQuack, “budding conservatives” Ever heard the term RINO? Or do you not get out much?AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Thanks for the giggles!

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

AlphaOmega writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 8:24 AM
To Jvete
Of all the different ills that you describe in your posting, none of them was caused by gay marriage. You are talking about problems that result from divorces, and from step-parents in subsequent weddings. Practically none of those divorces are caused by gay people who are not looking to marry heterosexuals, are not looking to interfere in any heterosexual marriages, but are looking to create families among their own. If you are so concerned about the problems you mention, go to the root of the problem and campaign for an amendment to the federal constitution, that would abolish divorce and step-parents.
Harry writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 8:27 AM
Yawn.......
yawn...Go back to sleep Fred......if you would have gotten off your a$$ during your 15 minutes of campaign fame, we might have responded. Your credibility is suspect.
AlphaOmega writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 8:39 AM
To DJ
You are ranting about a non existent problem. Nobody is going to come to your church and demand gay weddings. There are already plenty of churches who are more than willing to perform gay marriages.
The struggle is for legalization by the state. Before you get married anywhere, you need a state license, otherwise it is not recognized.

By the way, all this loose talk about activist judges is a joke. You know the definition of activist judges? They are the ones who decide against your wishes. The largest case involving activist judges is Gore vs. Bush in 2000, where a Republican majority of the Supreme Court interfered that belonged to state jurisdiction, stopped the legitimate election process and appointed Dubya to the Presidency.
mrbmrb writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 8:46 AM
good judges
thompson and the rest of you dont mean Goog Judges,. You dont mean independent judges. You dont mean constitutional purists. you mean, and have always meant conservative judges who meet your particulat standar and who agree with your point of view. you refuse to conced that a word may mean one thing in 1776 and another in 2008. how do you explain the fact that 5 of 6 judges on the 9th court wwere appointd by and thought to be and are strict interpretists. maybe thet voted the way they though was right. after the preceden established by the Scalia Court in th Florida election case,. you have no right to complain about any judicial decision, liberal judges believe that you owe us 1000 decisions for that one, and were only up to 886. any examination of the history of the federal court syatem would quickly show you that virtually without exception they have been and are considered conservative. there is a bias in nominating and approving judicial appointment ---it is and always has been conservative. im sorry but if you think otherwise you dont know your history.
AlphaOmega writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 8:57 AM
Jvette II
writes:
We are society. It is our representatives duly elected who pass the laws. If our representatives are not doing as we wish, there is the option of initiatives which work outside the elected legislature. That is what happened in California.
______________________

The courts did exactly what is part of their duty to do, and has been, in the US for more than 200 years. It is the duty of the courts to examine laws passed by the legislation and determine their whether they conform to the constitution. It is not determined by one judge and his opinions; it goes through the system, from lower courts to courts of appeal and to Supreme courts, and even to the federal supreme court. You may not like their decision, but this is the proper way. since Marbury vs. Madison 200 years ago.

A majority of the people can decide on a course of action that would be harmful to a minority. You may decide by majority that all blacks should be given, again, 2nd class citizen status. But that would not be fair. In the same way, it is not fair to deprive gay people, a distinct minority, their rights as citizens.
It is only forty years ago, in 1967, the year I went to college, that the Supreme Court struck down laws in 16 states which prohibited interracial marriage. At that time, there was plenty of outcry how the decision would destroy the institution of marriage, how activist judges
decided against the will of the people, how it was against the owrd of God in the Bible...
Forty years from now the last state, probably Alabama, will lift the last prohibition against gay marriage.
AlphaOmega writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 9:04 AM
Rowly
Your parents who passed away sometime ago probably believed that blacks and whites should not intermarry. I dare say that, the fact they can, now, has no affected you or the institution of marriage. So, I expect that you are not against it.

Years from now, when there is no such thing as gay marriage, but simply marriage between any two consenting adults, your grandchildren, if you have any, will not think twice about the nice couple of lesbians next door, and their kids, safe in their marriage.
AlphaOmega writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 9:08 AM
Ike
I love your rant about rich people, who take advantage of the system to conspire against the lower classes. It sounds to me like a communist rant.

I hope the Republican party adopts every single one of your propositions. That would assure its decline and death in less than a decade.

Go for it.
Fbrosius writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 9:54 AM
move to another State!
I also must say “right on Fred” The Federal Government should look after the United States as our Founders have written and the individual States should make state Laws. This is the one thing people do not get. You do not want the Fed. Gov. in your day to day business but, groups of people keep trying to get them involved in something that is not in their job description. Last, the States should not even attempt to step on the U.S. Constitution, if they want to play with something, play with their own State Constitution as if people do not like what they do the people can always move to another State!
Fbrosius writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 10:21 AM
PokerGuy:
What you say is true, one piece at a time and sooner or later they will all be gone. The fun part is “no one cares” or they are too blind to see it... With in a State are Counties and some of them have become no better than a “Police State” because you can do nothing to stop them. So, it looks to be a double edge sword we must walk today... Now in one Florida County; on May 19th, “IF” you have smoked, and you must take a test to prove you have not, in the past year or are a smoker (I am not one) you cannot work for that county you will not be hired or you will be fired! They just passed a law to that effect!!!!!! Go Figure!
Polly writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 10:27 AM
my pet goat
You're right, let them marry and suffer the tax consequences, also known as "the marriage penalty." I think the evil Bush Tax Cuts got rid of that particular inequity but the all-caring Dems promise to let those evil tax cuts expire, so I assume the marriage penalty will reappear.

When my sister's "partner" cheated and ultimately moved on, I could tell that my sister thought that a "marriage" license would have prevented that. Yeah, right, Sis. Meanwhile she saved the expense of hiring a lawyer and fighting in court to end the union.

By the way, you can be in charge of changing all dictionary definitions of "marriage" to define it as "a union of two." You can add "people" if you want to have to go back later and take that out.
Polly writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 10:32 AM
AlphaOmega
Actually that Supreme Court decision which you so abhor was NOT an example of judicial activism. The Court merely pointed out (and ruled) that Florida could not re-work its election laws, post-election, in order to benefit the noisiest party.

Rather, the FLORIDA Supreme Court, saying, "Go ahead guys, do whatever you think might get Gore, uh, 'elected'," was displaying judicial activism.

Remember how hard the Dems worked to get the absentee ballots of the military overseas thrown out? Ahh, those were the days.
No Tolerance for Liars writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 10:32 AM
rights?
Homosexuals have the same rights as heterosexuals when it comes to marriage (men can marry women, women can marry men). So having this equal protection, the 'equal rights' argument is moot.

Regardless of what you think about homosexual behavior, it is unnatural, and should not be endorsed by the government. Men and women have certain physical features for a reason. Man/man sex is just as natural as man/animal sex - neither should be endorsed by the government, especially when it goes against the will of its citizens. If you want to do your gay lover or your german sheperd, do it in private and keep it to yourself. But don't demand that I accept either behavior as normal.
hagar writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 10:42 AM
So we are headed
to a one party system where the Judicial legislates.
Seems to be that is a constitutional issue, isnt it?. Can anyone tell me what that type of system is called? Maybe someone from the soviet union or pre war Germany can answer that for us.
Bikerknight writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 10:54 AM
SNAFU
You have a point, but your example does not.
If you look at the concealed carry laws, they all specify limitations based upon the state's sovereignty (federal buildings and installations are always exempt). In other words, Texas does not attempt to tell Arkansas that Arkansas must accept armed Texans roaming throughout her state. There are many reciprocal agreements, but that is not the point. The clause has normally been applied to situations like ownership of property (to include slaves) and often, but admittedly not always, marriage. Much of the use of constitutional clauses many years past was fairly restricted. Full Faith and credit was part of the justification for the Fugitive Slave Law. The point was that just because a slave crosses into "free" territory does not make him free. That said, unitl Justice Taney, no one thought it meant that the act of keeping slaves was fully portable into territories and lands that had not adopted slavery.
Sadly, these are different times.
The Interstate Commerce clause was part of the justification for Congressional intrusion into public education and the creation of an entire cabinet level department of the federal executive. Anyone who thinks some PC ambulance chaser can't build a case for federal intrusion into this area of the laws of "disinterested" states is simply naive.
hagar writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 11:14 AM
If the 2nd amendment were "True"
I could travel between my properties in different states with my home state legally registered firearm without fear of arrest and prosecution. Unfortunetly that is not true and if you risk running the gauntlet you risk imprisonment as a felon.
Silver Lion writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 11:20 AM
Here's another perspective
"History is filled with millions who have tried to follow a path contrary to God's wisdom. It may be a false religion or philosophy, a personal ambition, a political agenda, an economic strategy, or any other things that we humans, in our ignorance, may set our hearts on. Millions have sailed against the currents of God and failed. Their end is miserable. What looked so promising was found to be futile.

Do you have a personal agenda? Plans for your future? Examine them closely and ask yourself if they are thoroughly consistent with God's ways. If not, you could sail comfortably for thousands of miles, thinking you're headed toward the right destination, only to find out you're far, far away. Even slight variations in the beginning can lead you way off course in the end."

Go for it California: Your decision is very unwise.

lbknight47 writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 11:28 AM
Enough is Enough
I just finished reading Newt Gingrich (Drill here, Drill now, Pay less ) I read Newts news letters each week. I am sick of reading each week ! It's time to stop writing, stop reading, all it does is fuel the rage ! The Freds, Newts, and every concerned Conservetive that is left standing should be standing on the steps of the Capital building telling Americans that they are here to reistablish the true Conservetive beliefs. Start with National Defense, Border control,less Government at the State level, Drill in Anwar, Drill off our Coasts, build more refineries. Don't just tell the American people what we need to do, Do It ! The people will listen to both liberals and conservitives. The Politicians that balk and don't want to be a part of this rebuild are the ones that should be noticed and not reelected. The american people need to be aware of the fact that it is their job to elect and fire the officials that don't want to be a part of the solution. I say get rid of them ! They have been given the power by the people , they are rich and don't care what the american people want and need, it's time to send them on their way, we don't need or care about them either !!
Rowly writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 11:30 AM
AlphaoOmega
You may be the beginning and the end,but what is between? My parents were not predjudiced and would have said 'live and let live' as for as blacks and whites marrying was concerned.

I don't think they would have felt the same about homosexuals,though.By the way,they are not 'gays'.Gay means happy,elated,etc. They are homosexuals,period.

A slippery slope is started when legal marriage is tampered with.Does anyone thinks it is proper for three people to marry each other,or a man to marry his mother or his dog?

Where does it stop,once it starts?It may sound ridiculous,but a law changed ,is a law changed.Once a legal marriage is not between a man and a woman,then all bets are off.Anything goes.

They can swap blood,take an oath before some pseudo-pastor or whatever,but it should not be a marriage.It will still be a 'shack-up',and it won't be legal,and that's as it should be.
paddy o'furniture writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 11:34 AM
hagar
If the 2nd Amendment were true, you wouldn't have needed to register your firearm in the first place.....
indyconantidim writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 11:43 AM
2008
Forget the flag pin, not putting his hand over his heart, sitting in front of raving hate-monger for 20 years or sitting with terrorists, if there's one thing that should make every American get and vote against Oblaba it is judges, judges, judges. I believe I posted this bizarro-Tim Russert statement back in the fall. And it is still the most important thing today. They will uphold every liberal agenda from coddling terrorists to letting in illegals to killing babies for two generations if you let Oblaba pick the next 3 or 4 and all the lower courts too.
SJ Doc writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 12:17 PM
The difference between...
--
...real American conservatives (who defend lawful, constitutional, limited government) and "social" pseudoconservatives is found generally in this hooraw about "gay marriage" and specifically in the the latter group's response - here - to Senator Thompson's observations and recommendations.

The "social" pseudoconservative views the federal government as the biggest possible weapon in the nation.

The "social" pseudoconservative wants to use the threat of armed government violence to shove his/her bigotries down everyone else's throat.

With the U.S. Constitution (and in the constitutions of the original 13 American states), strictures were written into the law of the land to *PREVENT* this.

The founders understood that when government becomes nothing more than a weapon, the only recourse left to the people against whom that weapon has been turned is to wage war against the government itself.

The "social" pseudoconservatives are - wittingly or not - calling for a civil society in which armed resistance to government must be accepted as the unpopular minority's only remedy.

And in justice, armed resistance is precisely what the "social" pseudoconservative deserves.

But as long as reasoned discourse is possible, and as long as enough people are open to the persuasive power of anything like Senator Thompson's appeal to the concept of government under rule of law, such armed resistance will not be necessary.

Which is - whether they know it or not - all that's keeping the typical "social" pseudoconservative from a shallow grave and a shovelful of quicklime.

--
Charlio writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 12:27 PM
Gay Marriage
When the Massachusetts State Supreme Court ruled to legalize gay marriage in 2003. The towns & cities were given a few months until May17, 2004 when gay marriage would go into effect. Of course Romney & his cronies tried everything to stop it but failed. Even after gay marriages were performed they tried to get an amendment on to the ballot until June 14th, 2007 when it was finally defeated in the State House. For those who are still uncomfortable with this check out our short produced to educate & defuse the controversy. It has a way of opening closed minds & provides some sanity on the issue: http://www.OUTTAKEonline.com
ole grizz writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 1:08 PM
mariage
The various human viewpoints bantered back and forth, the horizontal realationships among mankind ,seems to be the only issue worthy .The Celestial Judge will weigh in with the Divine Viewpoint, within the vertical relationship,mankind and God, like it or not. As of now, these judges are en ablers of sin.
ole grizz writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 1:31 PM
gay marriage
What about the divine viewpoint? The Celestial Judge has the final say.Let us aviod enabling sin and ultimate darkness
Greg the Californian writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 1:31 PM
Weighin In
Ok, I had to weigh in on this one.

First, if gays don’t want to be treated differently, don’t behave differently. If you’re the neighbor with the Buddha shrine in your front yard, you’re advertising your perspective for passers by to accept or reject. That everyone doesn’t conform to your way of life and still permits your participation in the community is what makes society civil.

Gays are not about participating in civil discourse, they want recognition. Their self absorbed attempt to gain marital benefits is a smoke screen for dismantling the institution itself. There are social and legal constructs for everyone including gays to enjoy all the benefits of marriage, save child bearing. Which may be on their agenda, I wouldn’t know.

Mr. Thompson is right. If a word, turn of phrase or an entire cultural axiom can be redefined to include anything for anyone, it looses all meaning. That judges can do this with impunity is disheartening. That it happened I my state is embarrassing. I travel a lot and I’m tired of explaining what it’s like to live with people who elect Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi and Arnold Schwarzenegger.

But then again, if I hang around here long enough I’ll eventually be able to marry my philodendron outside my front door.
AlphaOmega writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 1:49 PM
For Rowley
Your parents may not have been prejudiced, but they lived, as I did, in a society where 16 states in the Union prohibited interracial marriage, and many of the arguments they used are arguments used to day, by you as well as many others. Such as the slippery slope argument:

A slippery slope is started when legal marriage is tampered with.Does anyone thinks it is proper for three people to marry each other,or a man to marry his mother or his dog?
Where does it stop,once it starts?
--------------------------
I was hoping that you would be more rational than that. We are talking about marriage between two consenting adults. Period. Children and animals do not have consent. Nobody talks about brothers and sisters marrying. Do you see any enormous crowds out there, made of brothers and sisters? Are there any pride parades with dogs and men yearning for a marriage license? Please do not insult my intelligence.
Homosexual couples exist now; homosexual families, with kids in school, exist now. What does not exist for them is a set of benefits that the state assigns to couples who marry. We have a situation where the state denies benefits to a subset of US citizens, only on the basis of sexual orientation.

You have to come up with a different set of reasons, other than the ridiculous slippery slope, that shows specific and distinct ways in which the country will suffer because marriage licenses will be extended to an additional 3-5% of the population.


AlphaOmega writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 1:50 PM
For Rowley
Your parents may not have been prejudiced, but they lived, as I did, in a society where 16 states in the Union prohibited interracial marriage, and many of the arguments they used are arguments used to day, by you as well as many others. Such as the slippery slope argument:

A slippery slope is started when legal marriage is tampered with.Does anyone thinks it is proper for three people to marry each other,or a man to marry his mother or his dog?
Where does it stop,once it starts?
--------------------------
I was hoping that you would be more rational than that. We are talking about marriage between two consenting adults. Period. Children and animals do not have consent. Nobody talks about brothers and sisters marrying. Do you see any enormous crowds out there, made of brothers and sisters? Are there any pride parades with dogs and men yearning for a marriage license? Please do not insult my intelligence.
Homosexual couples exist now; homosexual families, with kids in school, exist now. What does not exist for them is a set of benefits that the state assigns to couples who marry. We have a situation where the state denies benefits to a subset of US citizens, only on the basis of sexual orientation.

You have to come up with a different set of reasons, other than the ridiculous slippery slope, that shows specific and distinct ways in which the country will suffer because marriage licenses will be extended to an additional 3-5% of the population.


sdogg1m writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 1:52 PM
SJ Doc
Nice strawman.

How about this? "Real conservatives" trust in the sacred TWO HUNDRED AND THIRTY TWO YEAR institution of marriage and desire to preserve the tradition as is. Did the social-conservatives instruct judges to rule unconstitutionally in MA or CA? Amazingly, judges have legalized gay marriage in both states and what have social-conservatives done in other states and attempt to do in CA and MA? They are looking to follow the legal state method of adding laws to the books. The audacity of those social conservative to know the law, follow the law, and apply the law.

Doesn't everyone see that Fred attempts to have it both ways in this article? He speaks out against activist judges but at the same time implies that their result was correct. Same sex marriage in MA and CA would not be recognized if it weren't for activist judges. Fred never argues for homosexuals and sympathizers to seek to legally change the law but just tells others to "stay out" of what should be a state rights issue.
redneck hippie writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 2:06 PM
Notable Quotable
Today's WSJ page A23 exerpts from Fred's prior post in Notable Quotables. For sure!

Also, Greg in CA - couldn't agree with you more.

Although stuck here in Mayor Daley's utopia (almost, actually I'm safely ensconced in the previously unchallenged Republican stronghold of Henry Hyde's DuPage County, IL)-- Oh Boy do I feel your pain.

It's hard enough for reasonable people to be elected who represent my conservative viewpoints. When the Men in Black (see Mark Levin) take it upon themselves to overturn the laws made by our elected officials, I am outraged.

There is no justification for legislating from the judicial branch. The people (Society) have decided they make a distinction where marriage is concerned through duly held elections.

Knowing that Fred and the alternative new media are pounding away at the Libs and their inane ideas and plans everyday shows us that we do NOT have to take it any more. Let's get mad, but let's also get even. But please don't turn against McCain. If I can vote for my 3rd choice, you can, too. And Please, Please, don't take your frustration out on the down-ticket Republicans.

El Quixotian writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 2:54 PM
states slippery slopes
Go get em' Fred, hope to see you and Tom in Camarillo.

Well, first of all, the ruling suggests they're providing remedy for those discriminated against by being denied the right to marry. Granted, while all have the right to marry, mixed race couples had been inhibited in their choice of spouse. But is it marriage when it seeks to redefine the concept?

Surely, the ruling is flawed. I'm curious we'll settle for amending our constitution out here or if further appeals will be federalized. I'm waiting to see your updated thoughts about how other states my be protected from one states novelties which would have interstate ramifications.

Here's an interesting one: seems like San Francisco mayor Gavin Newsom, not content to sit on his laurels for gay marriage, which he's trumpeting as now inevitable to sweep the nation, is now trying to out raza my mayor Villaragoso, and not only is proclaiming his a ubersanctuary city, but will be spending city money for Public Service Announcements to that effect:

http://www.arrestgavinnewsom.com/
hagar writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 2:58 PM
Paddy O Furniture
I submit to your superior point
Jvette writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 3:39 PM
AlphaOmega
I never said that gay marriage or gay people are responsible for the ills I listed. What I said is that the general disregard and breakdown of marriage has caused these things. Gay marriage is just another way to further erode the institution. What is an important building block of society has been lost. There is more to marriage than the financial benefits from the government.

The court in Cal. found a right in the constitution that does not exist. Equal justice is not the same as supporting an institution that is a basic building block of society.

Within a couple of decades, we have seen the devastation caused by the easy in, easy out attitude towards marriage. It is too soon to tell what long term damage may be caused by same sex parenting.

There is a reason that marriage has been maintained the way it has been for so long. It has proven to be the best way to bring up children. We were told for years that divorce was not a hardship for children, that they are resilient and better off when unhappy parents divorced. We now know that to be untrue. What will we know in twenty or thirty years about this experiment of "gay marriage"?

Please don't bother to respond that some children thrive in single parent households, that is a red herring similar to the one about blacks and civil rights. The arguments sound good but aren't sound.
El Quixotian writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 3:52 PM
Excellent parry Jvette
AlphaOmega, the argument can indeed be made that even the most earnest of those seeking to broaden the concept of marriage, and others trying to shed their brand as "alternative", can contribute to a detioriation already underway. But more to the point of this post is the legal ramifications of failed unions. Of course this applies to traditional marriages as well....I think that it might shut up a lot of people if the legal, tax, and financial incentives to married couples could apply to whatever genders paired (to the degree that our society determines that they promote the general welfare) as long as it applies only to the first monogamy.

Also, do me a favor and look at the existing laws in California which do provide set of benefits that the state assigns to couples in domestic partnerships. then tell me if you can argue that this should be expanded. We're being told that it isn't good enough unless you add the word 'marriage'.

Oh, and as for your assertion that churches will be coerced into booking weddings beyond what they consider valid? Don't be naive...

I used to serve altar for a wonderful priest, now Cardinal Levada, who was Archbiship of San Francisco before taking over Pope Benedict XVI's previous job. When the City of San Francisco mandated all organizations dealing with the city had to provide benefits for domestic partners, he found a Solominic solution. He broadened benefits not just to lovers of all genders, but siblings and 'dependent' parents.

You don't have to bastardize the sacrament of marriage to be fair.
El Quixotian writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 3:57 PM
Zebra logic...
mrbmr - "liberal judges believe that you owe us 1000 decisions for that one...:

You just made Fred's point. This isn't a basketball game where the referees are making a consolation foul. SCOTUS stepped in because Floridas' was treading on me and everyone else who voted in other states. You can't just recount the Gore votes.
Charles Martel writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 5:38 PM
a question for Snafu
I am curious as to the distinction you have drawn between drivers' licenses and concealed handgun licenses. Why must a state recognize one but not the other? Who decides where the line must be drawn between the documents that must be respected and those that need not be?

The answer is simple: all states must respect all documents. New York must permit me to carry a firearm under Texas license, and Kansas must recognize the marriage of two guys from Vermont -- that is, until we have the simple common sense to require all states to conduct their regulation (through licensing) of marriage within the same parameters. We do that by amending the United States Constitution to remove any such ambiguity that may have resulted from the inadvertance of the Founders.

When we do that, and we can, then this tiresome subject goes away forever.
Ike writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 6:44 PM
AlphaOmega
And since it is a rant, whatever I said must be false, eh? Is it untrue, then, that most of the protesters of the '60's were the spoiled children of the wealthy? Is it also untrue that we have two and three generations of "Senator Gores" or "Senator Quayles" and now "President Bushes"? All of those academics who have used and continue to use their university positions to denigrate America and things American are all the children of working-class men and women, are they? And of course it must be false, if it sounds like a communist rant, eh? There is no concerted effort being made to stifle First Amendment freedoms by the radical homosexual movement; is there? Canada has no "Human Rights Commissions" which routinely punish speech they consider "not allowable" when it is otherwise lawful but opposes the goals and methods of the homosexual movement there; does it? No one is attempting to introduce similar measures here; are they? There are no attempts by large school boards to compel curricula which denigrate heterosexual marriage, forbid the use of the words "mother" and "father" in school books, etc endlessly? All of that must be the product of my fevered, communist, ranting imagination; mustn't it?


Your're quite right, of course, that like all human activity, politics is too important to be left to the common everyday people who pay the taxes and whose young men (and now women, God save the mark!) die in the wars that politicians lead us into. Entirely too important to be left to the ignorant whims of the people who pay all of the consequences for all of those oh, so clever and wise decisions, like women's liberation. I promise that from now on, I'll only sight quietly and listen to the wisdom of folks like you continue to vote like a blind man for politicians who can continue to destroy the nation of my birth. Oh, yeah; that's what I'll do, for certain!
elvis writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 6:45 PM
comments...hmmm!?
* Majority/minorities being protected...blah,blah
and more blah! Who wins a ball game,an election!
The one with the most MOST..YOU GOT THAT FOLKS!
That was pretty simple wasn't it!? Of course the
few have to be protected from Illegal activities
but so do the majorities!That's why we vote,duh!
Iam reminded of a book that tells of a family
that needed some real important records..real important! And when they went to get them a man
threatened to kill them one of the members of the family was told by an angel of the lord to slay the man(don't be surprised...bible is full of accounts that powers on hugh had someone "removed" that was an obstacle to righteous accomplishments!) Anyway this is what the young man was told..."it is better for a few to perish than a whole nation dwindle in ......
disbelief" so much for a few blocking something that is good! LDS'ers know this story backwards and forwards!
Gays....no way!
elvis
Retired Geek writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 6:46 PM
Liberal Elitist parade
The DNC will hold their 'dementia' parade this summer in August led by the Liberal elitists.

Farrakhan and Dennis Kucinch will lead the 'tin foil' hats that visit with aliens - they
will hold a flashlight in each hand shining them on their hats singing "This Foil Hat of
mine, I like to make it shine".

These represent the very best intellectuals of the DNC and make them proud.

The gay clowns will follow resplendent in their costumes along with the 'sadists' and their
'masochistic' followers complete with dog collars and chains that will cause a hush in the
crowds when they realize that they are in the presence of Liberal nobility.

The Memphis 'rape' dance team will perform cheered loudly by the NEA members and school
Principals.

Twenty minutes has been set aside for a standing applause when the NAMBLA contingent
arrives.

Obama will speak of prophetic visions of hope and change while Obama-ites begin to faint all
over the building with followers experiencing 'leg shivers' and involuntary 'orgasms'.

Orgasm wipes will be handed out by the thousands while they chant "Yes We Can" and scream I love you Obama.

MSM teams will have multiple backups for when the unbiased reporters faint or have leg
shivers or involuntary orgasms,

Tickets are going fast - get yours today!

Para hablar en Espanol, Oprime el numero uno
Press 2 for English

NOTE: Mentor Wright will lead a section in the audience screaming "God Damn America" in
seven different languages.
elvis writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 6:53 PM
oooops..
FORGET THE WORD HUGH ON MY LAST COMMENTS-HIGH!
ELVIS
Billy Bob writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 7:13 PM
JB
When's the last(or first) time you saw same sex couples bring life into the world by way of their own sexual act? I'm still waiting for that one to happen. It's not only perversion, it's also a dead end relationship that produces no fruit,no life. The perverted act is a dead one. And please don't give me "the old couple can't have a child" argument.At least at one time in their younger normalcy they could produce fruit. Same sex? NEVER has and NEVER will produce life. It's physically impossible! The act is a dead one!!!
SJ Doc writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 8:08 PM
sdogg1m - Only 232 years?
--
Proving yet again the rank stupidity of the "social" pseudoconservative, sdogg1m whines about:

"...the sacred TWO HUNDRED AND THIRTY TWO YEAR institution of marriage and desire to preserve the tradition as is."


Aw, c'mon, sdoggy. You're funnin' us. Nobody - not even you - could be stupid enough to say that the "institution of marriage" is only 232 years old.

Or could you?

I'm finding that the universal characteristic of the "social" pseudoconservative is the magnificently dead-from-the-neck-up absolute ignorance of history.

It's as if the record of the comings and goings of the human race were completely blank to schmucks like you and your ilk, isn't it?

Marriage, you incredible schmuck, is an institution that pre-dates not only American history but also the history of Judaism (not to mention Christianity), and long before it was a matter for priests and preachers and witch-doctors and shamans to gain prestige - and a bit of graft - in sanctifying ceremonies by way of whatever myths they were peddling, marriages were societal (which is to say "civil") formalities recognizing the contractual relationships by which property was held, obligations were established, and parentage was acknowledged.

The "social" pseudoconservative has to be an idiot.

Were he not, he wouldn't be a "social" pseudoconservative.

And only an idiot would publicly assert that the "institution of marriage" is only 232 years old.

Q.E.D.




======
"Some people ask the secret of our long marriage. We take time to go to a restaurant two times a week. A little candlelight, dinner, soft music and dancing.

"She goes Tuesdays, I go Fridays."

-- Henny Youngman


Curt409 writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 8:50 PM
Who? What?
Who's Fred Thompson?

(thanks for nothing! I don't want to hear what people say who helped in ANY way give us McCain for '08. Maybe genious Fred can check back in around Jan 2012...if that's not too early in the primary race for him)
rinoHUNTER writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 9:55 PM
Not surprisingly...
Seems there are still a lot of people who think they are SO much smarter than
Fred Thompson. Interestingly enough, most of them still can't even spell.
When those of you realize that this nation is in a battle of the SICK vs the WELL, maybe then you will wake up and listen. Maybe.
Rowly writes: Tuesday, May, 20, 2008 10:41 PM
Alice In Wonderland
Is where it seems like I am in today's world.I must be an old relic.I understand Robert Bork's book title."Slouching To Gommorrah",and that is what we are doing,in my opinion.

I realize the world is changing and to me,not for the better.I don't like change,especially from bad to worse.

Several years ago in our small town,we had a handsome young man who ran a florist.He was a gentleman who dressed well and treated everyone well.He was said to be homosexual.A few years later he had a partner who ran the business with him.

No one descriminated against him and if he felt different,he never let on.He died a few years ago and kept his dignity,as far as I know.He did not ask for special acceptance,he just was.

Marriage is between a man and a woman.Has ALWAYS been that way.Because some liberal judge says different,does not make it so.He will also,someday, be judged by a Higher Power for usurping God's law.I think God is not happy with the change.

TNboy writes: Wednesday, May, 21, 2008 1:54 AM
Business wing GOP
wanted to tell you that these issues were secondary.

Fred Thompson told concerned social conservatives that he wasn't going to dance to their tune and would not support a national marriage amendment.

Romney's historical position was to be strongly in favor of gay rights and had not developed much of a record to say otherwise.

McCain fought hard against social conservatives to stop them from passing a federal marriage amendment.

Guiliani was a gay rights activist.

Now you guys are horrified by this and with good reason, but the social conservatives are not suprised at all, they tried to tell the GOP about this and their pleas were ignored in favor of big business.
budbud writes: Wednesday, May, 21, 2008 2:17 AM
You Must Understand...
First. I can't believe old sleepy now has a gig writing columns for TH.

That being said, Fred better walk a fine line on the anti-gay talk IF HE EVER WANTS TO WORK IN HOLLYWOOD AGAIN!

He'd better hope there's no gay producers on that next big project he's hoping to land. Wow. No gay producers? That just narrowed his project prospects down to about two if he's lucky.

I Am Sans Pareil writes: Wednesday, May, 21, 2008 8:01 AM
Judge Ito
Is the perfect example of a jurist looking for & lavishing in his "15 minute window" (Now THAT was a LONG 15 minutes.

But to the topic of marriage, gay or otherwise.
I don't recall the Federal Government having anything to do with my wife & I securing a Marriage License nor would I have welcomed their input.
The obvious added layer of bureaucracy, it's cost and it's certain ineffectiveness should be enough to give anyone pause.

Marriage is a State issue. That being said, Judges should stay away from the fray as well.
IF you truly want a Protection of Marriage Amendment get to work on YOUR STATE LEVEL.

With any luck, your legislature won't be as gutless as the one I have to deal with. Maybe if a majority of states amend their Constitutions to define marriage as being SOLELY between a Man & Woman Massachusetts & California will be forced to follow suit.


For God And Country
W/O=
SteveL writes: Wednesday, May, 21, 2008 1:12 PM
for Jvette
Jvette writes: "We were told for years that divorce was not a hardship for children, that they are resilient and better off when unhappy parents divorced. We now know that to be untrue."

Then why don't we fix THAT problem of no-fault divorce first, instead of worrying about gay marriage?

There are ten times more hetero divorces in America than there are gays.

And yet you'll notice that Focus on the Family and other activist groups don't crusade to reform the no-fault divorce laws.

Know why?

Because they know it's a political non-starter, that's why.

Too many Americans, including the richest and most politically powerful, want the option of divorce, and so these activists would lose their own supporters. (How many CONSERVATIVES have been divorced?)

So instead they pick on gays and lesbians, a minority with much less power.

It's always easier to scapegoat a tiny minority that can't easily fight back.
rigdone writes: Wednesday, May, 21, 2008 2:41 PM
Who's lazy?
Fred is never lazy and neither are conservatives! Beltway Republicans hold the purse strings of the Party and the media friendly to Republicans. Elect a conservative or enter one into a race and they are thrown to the wolves of liberal media and thrown under the bus by Beltway Republicans.
Bloodied and beaten Fred is still getting the message out even if it will be on the last page. But sink the ship with a third party candidacy is allowing the wolves a feast on our bones.
Jvette writes: Thursday, May, 22, 2008 2:43 PM
Stevel
Don't know if you'll see this as it is a little late. Couldn't get any computer time yesterday as I had to replace a toilet in my house. As usual, a job that for anyone else would've taken about 2 hours total, took me nearly 5! But, hey I saved a couple hundred dollars and it only leaks a little:(.

I get what you're saying but, some things are like toothpaste, once they are out of the tube, there's no getting it back in. What Dr. Dobson and others do though is try to strengthen the commitment to marriage. Change will not come from legal action, but from the hearts and minds of the people who marry on a whim and divorce just as quickly. The me generation, as we were called in eighties, are still self centered and selfish. The next generation is just as bad, but I see a real difference in the one coming up.

My point is and has always been, that gay marriage is just a further erosion of the respect and regard for marriage as a lifelong commitment between two people to raise and support children. This is the ideal. I have no problem with same sex couples living together under a social contract.

There is a deeper context to marriage that cannot be fulfilled in a same sex relationship. I do not denigrate their commitment to each other, I do not believe they should be discriminated against, but I do not believe that their union is marriage.
Butcher writes: Monday, May, 26, 2008 8:41 PM
Gay Marriage and the IRS Code
Fred and others I am probably the last responder to this, I've been on VACATION. Hoorah, and O
h it was so nice being on the road and not having it clogged with the under paid. LOL
I hear what you said but I differ in my opion of the rules of Jurist Prudence.
I feel that a Superior Court Jurist should be the one to hear, listed to bothsides and in the end, whether we like the decission or not, rendour an oppion based on law and only law.
The Laws of our Great Nation are laws from `God' and of man. Our forefathers chose to make this new nation a land of Law and not a Land of Religious Persecutions, as was the case of those Nations and Lands that they left behind.
Today many, who claim they speak for the rightious morals of `Christianity' condem they that violate a law of God, and want it made into a Law of Man. If our Coursts follow this step, then they set a presidence as to what may be the beginning of the end of our Freedoms of Choice.
John Hanlon writes: Monday, June, 02, 2008 5:16 PM
Interesting article
I really enjoyed this blog post.
bobby writes: Sunday, June, 29, 2008 8:27 PM
THIS HOMO THING
IT IS DISCUSTING SICK, PERVERTED, IMMOREAL ,BLASTIMY AGAINST GOD, THESE PEOPLE THINK THEY CAN GET BUY,AN THINK GOD NOT NOTICE THIS JUNK ,AN MOCK HIS LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS ,I DON'T THINK SO, STUFF LIKE THIS BROUGHT GOD DOWN ONCE BEFORE AND HE DESTROYED IT, YOU PEOPLE THAT PRACTICE THIS HOMO JUNK DON'T GOD WILL DO IT AGAIN, JUST KEEP IT UP, YOU WILL SEE,WHEN THE EARTH OPENS UP AND SWALLOWS THEM UP AN FIRE BALLS FALL FROM THE SKY AN KILLING EVERY THING THERE OF . YOU DON'T TEMPT GOD AN GET AWAY,WITH IT YOU WILL WINDE UP GOING DOWN PRIMROSE LANE, I HERE IT'S RATHER HOT.......
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